winter_blossom (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
winter_blossom) wrote2019-10-16 12:31 am
winter_blossom) wrote2019-10-16 12:31 am
Entry tags:
Shen Wei and Guilt vs Responsibility
Just this morning, I was thinking about Guardian while lazing in bed and repeatedly snoozing my alarm, as you do, and kept dwelling on one of the common fandom interpretations of Shen Wei that I puzzles me whenever I see it: the tendency to see him as prone to excessive guilt, self-flagellation, and considering himself "unworthy" of Zhao Yunlan. I can certainly see how that interpretation came about, but at the same time, it's markedly different from my personal reading of his character.
First, a disclaimer: I'm solely focusing on the drama version of the characters in this post; I know where novel!Shen Wei's guilt and self-loathing comes from, but am not interested in discussing that here. Characterisation of the main cast - and the two protagonists in particular - is so different between the two canons that I don't ever intend to mix them up.
Now to the topic on hand! My main point here is that having a strong sense of responsibility and duty, helped along by a steadfast conscience, is by no means the same as being guilty and apologising for everything regardless of whether you're to blame or not. The two traits might coexist, but in my personal experience, at least, the kind of people who're quick to blame themselves and verbally apologise are often not the same people who're willing to take responsibility in more tangible ways and actually do something to make up for their mistakes. And I consider Shen Wei as being firmly a member of the second category.
Shen Wei is, after all, the Black-Cloaked Envoy. He was the Dixingren general in the Great War, and had doubtless killed hundreds of people by the time he met Zhao Yunlan in YOHE. But when he talks about it to Yunlan, even as guileless and naive as he was in that arc, I still didn't notice any guilt on his part: neither for the enemies his army killed nor for those who died fighting by his side; only the firm belief that he must do right by everyone's sacrifices while ensuring that as many people as possible stayed alive at the end.
Then we come to his Envoy duties in the modern day: maintaining peace with Haixing by enforcing a treaty that keeps his people trapped and their powers restrained. He pardons those he can (I'm certain Wang Yike wasn't the first "criminal" he let free), banishes those he must, likely even executed plenty of repeat/dangerous offenders like Ding Dung. I don't at all buy that he carries any of those more extreme punishments on his conscience: he acts in a way that satisfies his righteousness, then quickly moves on. The scene with Zu Ma in the hospital is also interesting in this context. He's clearly sorry that a child had to die and that his best friend is so broken up over it, but again, I don't see remorse there: only sympathy and the very awkward situation of having to console someone over a death that he was technically responsible for, which is what I think motivated him to shove "comforting duty" onto Yunlan like that.
His apology to Da Qing for what happened with Da Ji I found to be both appropriate and admirable: he realised that he acted in a way that completely violated his own moral code, enforcing a harsher punishment than was appropriate based on personal feelings (however accidentally) and owned up to it. Conversely, when he rescued Yunlan from the MPD criminal, Lin Jing actually called him out on his rough handling of the bad guy, but Shen Wei's reaction was a firm "whatever." He's utterly unrepentant about giving the guy who nearly choked Yunlan to death a bit of payback (and I agree).
The only instance where he truly seemed to take on unwarranted blame was during the Cong Bo fiasco, but in that case, I consider his apology to be more a reflection of how uncertain he is about his new role in Yunlan's life, coupled with disappointment that his presence had brought danger on the SID the moment he joined, just as he'd feared. Also, this is Yunlan, and I think we all agree that Shen Wei's behaviour re: the love of his life is hardly in keeping with what's typical for him!
As for his being upset over Li Qian leaving university: now, this is mostly based on my experience with Japanese fiction than Chinese, but I think in certain countries, teachers (at least fictional ones!) have a stronger sense of duty to their students than they do in others. His favourite grad student having to drop out because of Hallows fuckery would definitely have been a blow to Shen Wei's sense of duty as a professor - which, imo, is just as important to him as his Envoy duties, albeit in a more personal capacity.
And perhaps the greatest instance of all: when he planned to take down Ye Zun. Did he seem guilty, even though he was basically plotting murder-suicide with his own identical twin? Not at all, in my opinion. He was simply hell-bent on fulfilling his duty as the Envoy, as Ye Zun's brother, and - perhaps most importantly - as the man who loves Zhao Yunlan, by neutralising that greatest threat in the best way he knew how. (Which may not actually have been the best way, but that's a topic for another day.)
In a way, this reflects another unpopular opinion I have about Shen Wei: I don't think he has any self-confidence issues, or even self-worth issues. He is, after all, a very proud and self-possessed man, and that doesn't come from nowhere. However, the source of that self-confidence and self-worth is totally different from what a normal person in our modern era would consider acceptable. To him, his own value is firmly linked to his ability to correctly perform his duties and fulfil his responsibilities. Which aren't necessarily always official: it's clear that he thinks of Yunlan - and eventually the rest of the SID - as his responsibility, too. I'm also fairly convinced that he knows and accepts that Yunlan loves him, but in his own mind, if he fails to protect Yunlan, he would become unworthy of Yunlan's love (regardless of what Yunlan himself might think). So it's not that he considers himself inherently unworthy, but that he's determined not to fail in his role as protector so that he doesn't become unworthy.
This tendency, imo, tells us a whole lot about his life up to now. I have no trouble imagining that his parents, no doubt figuring it was the best way to ensure their sons' survival during the war, tasked Shen Wei with "becoming stronger so that he could protect his frail younger brother." The failure of his first and - at that time - most important duty surely hit young Shen Wei hard. Following which he probably joined the army, and the military is definitely not where one can be expected to learn how to put themselves before The Greater Good. After that came The Alliance, where yet again Shen Wei was tasked with doing his level best to make sure that his side was well-represented, and, well, we all know the rest. My point here is that at no juncture in this long and gruelling life was there any space for self-pity/blame/doubt: only for doing his best at all turns. Add to all this his inherent saviour complex, and you get the Shen Wei we know and - a bit despairingly - love today. And honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way, as sad as it makes me sometimes.
Phew! That got a tad too long and rambly... But if you want to blame something, blame Guardian for inspiring the kind of Feels I haven't had in years. (If I didn't put this out there I felt I might explode, so I do feel pretty accomplished right now, and can't sincerely apologise for boring or annoying anyone!)
If someone actually managed to get this far: you're a champ, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, whether you agree or not or are somewhere in-between!
First, a disclaimer: I'm solely focusing on the drama version of the characters in this post; I know where novel!Shen Wei's guilt and self-loathing comes from, but am not interested in discussing that here. Characterisation of the main cast - and the two protagonists in particular - is so different between the two canons that I don't ever intend to mix them up.
Now to the topic on hand! My main point here is that having a strong sense of responsibility and duty, helped along by a steadfast conscience, is by no means the same as being guilty and apologising for everything regardless of whether you're to blame or not. The two traits might coexist, but in my personal experience, at least, the kind of people who're quick to blame themselves and verbally apologise are often not the same people who're willing to take responsibility in more tangible ways and actually do something to make up for their mistakes. And I consider Shen Wei as being firmly a member of the second category.
Shen Wei is, after all, the Black-Cloaked Envoy. He was the Dixingren general in the Great War, and had doubtless killed hundreds of people by the time he met Zhao Yunlan in YOHE. But when he talks about it to Yunlan, even as guileless and naive as he was in that arc, I still didn't notice any guilt on his part: neither for the enemies his army killed nor for those who died fighting by his side; only the firm belief that he must do right by everyone's sacrifices while ensuring that as many people as possible stayed alive at the end.
Then we come to his Envoy duties in the modern day: maintaining peace with Haixing by enforcing a treaty that keeps his people trapped and their powers restrained. He pardons those he can (I'm certain Wang Yike wasn't the first "criminal" he let free), banishes those he must, likely even executed plenty of repeat/dangerous offenders like Ding Dung. I don't at all buy that he carries any of those more extreme punishments on his conscience: he acts in a way that satisfies his righteousness, then quickly moves on. The scene with Zu Ma in the hospital is also interesting in this context. He's clearly sorry that a child had to die and that his best friend is so broken up over it, but again, I don't see remorse there: only sympathy and the very awkward situation of having to console someone over a death that he was technically responsible for, which is what I think motivated him to shove "comforting duty" onto Yunlan like that.
His apology to Da Qing for what happened with Da Ji I found to be both appropriate and admirable: he realised that he acted in a way that completely violated his own moral code, enforcing a harsher punishment than was appropriate based on personal feelings (however accidentally) and owned up to it. Conversely, when he rescued Yunlan from the MPD criminal, Lin Jing actually called him out on his rough handling of the bad guy, but Shen Wei's reaction was a firm "whatever." He's utterly unrepentant about giving the guy who nearly choked Yunlan to death a bit of payback (and I agree).
The only instance where he truly seemed to take on unwarranted blame was during the Cong Bo fiasco, but in that case, I consider his apology to be more a reflection of how uncertain he is about his new role in Yunlan's life, coupled with disappointment that his presence had brought danger on the SID the moment he joined, just as he'd feared. Also, this is Yunlan, and I think we all agree that Shen Wei's behaviour re: the love of his life is hardly in keeping with what's typical for him!
As for his being upset over Li Qian leaving university: now, this is mostly based on my experience with Japanese fiction than Chinese, but I think in certain countries, teachers (at least fictional ones!) have a stronger sense of duty to their students than they do in others. His favourite grad student having to drop out because of Hallows fuckery would definitely have been a blow to Shen Wei's sense of duty as a professor - which, imo, is just as important to him as his Envoy duties, albeit in a more personal capacity.
And perhaps the greatest instance of all: when he planned to take down Ye Zun. Did he seem guilty, even though he was basically plotting murder-suicide with his own identical twin? Not at all, in my opinion. He was simply hell-bent on fulfilling his duty as the Envoy, as Ye Zun's brother, and - perhaps most importantly - as the man who loves Zhao Yunlan, by neutralising that greatest threat in the best way he knew how. (Which may not actually have been the best way, but that's a topic for another day.)
In a way, this reflects another unpopular opinion I have about Shen Wei: I don't think he has any self-confidence issues, or even self-worth issues. He is, after all, a very proud and self-possessed man, and that doesn't come from nowhere. However, the source of that self-confidence and self-worth is totally different from what a normal person in our modern era would consider acceptable. To him, his own value is firmly linked to his ability to correctly perform his duties and fulfil his responsibilities. Which aren't necessarily always official: it's clear that he thinks of Yunlan - and eventually the rest of the SID - as his responsibility, too. I'm also fairly convinced that he knows and accepts that Yunlan loves him, but in his own mind, if he fails to protect Yunlan, he would become unworthy of Yunlan's love (regardless of what Yunlan himself might think). So it's not that he considers himself inherently unworthy, but that he's determined not to fail in his role as protector so that he doesn't become unworthy.
This tendency, imo, tells us a whole lot about his life up to now. I have no trouble imagining that his parents, no doubt figuring it was the best way to ensure their sons' survival during the war, tasked Shen Wei with "becoming stronger so that he could protect his frail younger brother." The failure of his first and - at that time - most important duty surely hit young Shen Wei hard. Following which he probably joined the army, and the military is definitely not where one can be expected to learn how to put themselves before The Greater Good. After that came The Alliance, where yet again Shen Wei was tasked with doing his level best to make sure that his side was well-represented, and, well, we all know the rest. My point here is that at no juncture in this long and gruelling life was there any space for self-pity/blame/doubt: only for doing his best at all turns. Add to all this his inherent saviour complex, and you get the Shen Wei we know and - a bit despairingly - love today. And honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way, as sad as it makes me sometimes.
Phew! That got a tad too long and rambly... But if you want to blame something, blame Guardian for inspiring the kind of Feels I haven't had in years. (If I didn't put this out there I felt I might explode, so I do feel pretty accomplished right now, and can't sincerely apologise for boring or annoying anyone!)
If someone actually managed to get this far: you're a champ, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, whether you agree or not or are somewhere in-between!
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I agree that this is the thought there and that it's pretty reasonable -- I don't even think he interpreted that as a personal failure, he just hated that that was happening and felt responsible to make it stop. I mean, "failure" may be a strong word, regardless, but when he apologizes for not finding the hidden camera, or for (iirc) not knowing how to disarm a bomb in ep 24, those are moderately insane things to take any blame for. Of course those are both linked causing problems for Zhao Yunlan, which is not a coincidence!
Or maybe this whole post was brought about by my own tendency to take on too much responsibility, but not be particularly prone to guilt (first-born child in a rather conservative South Asian family, what can you do?)
Ahaha, maybe. But also you've definitely THOUGHT about this and you have a ton of good points, so this post is damn good food for thought. (also I was raised Catholic, I HAVE GUILTS :P)
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FWIW, I read the hidden-camera apology as a kind of verbal self-criticism -- a disciplined way of taking responsibility for as much as one can. The fact that Shen Wei's "failings" are so obviously not failings makes it more of a gesture to signal humility (without actually admitting fault) and willingness to meet Zhao Yunlan halfway, I think?
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That was definitely The Plan, so good to know!